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PostSubject: Returnless Fuel System Vs Return Fuel System   April 12th 2012, 12:11 pm

I need help with this shit.

I already have two super car Ford GT Fuel pumps with a twin 40-amp KB-Booster Pump and i am going to get the fore triple pump precision fuel hat and add a third pump to be in the fuel safe side of 1000whp range.

My questions is! should i go Return system? or can i keep it returnless and still be safe making 900+whp?
I really don't like the return system, and all the BS having to be opening and closing the ignition key to charge up the fuel lines and fuel rails after the fuel pressure has settle down. Neutral

So any good input on this matter will be very helpful for me.

Thanks.
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V6Chris
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PostSubject: Re: Returnless Fuel System Vs Return Fuel System   April 12th 2012, 12:30 pm

TheCrusherCobra wrote:
I need help with this shit.

I already have two super car Ford GT Fuel pumps with a twin 40-amp KB-Booster Pump and i am going to get the fore triple pump precision fuel hat and add a third pump to be in the fuel safe side of 1000whp range.

My questions is! should i go Return system? or can i keep it returnless and still be safe making 900+whp?
I really don't like the return system, and all the BS having to be opening and closing the ignition key to charge up the fuel lines and fuel rails after the fuel pressure has settle down. Neutral

So any good input on this matter will be very helpful for me.

Thanks.

Frank, a return style system is 10times better and more efficient then returnless. also supports A LOT MORE power.
Get a return style system and stop eating shit with the 2 boost a pumps, 3 pumps, big expensive hat, all to still be damn near maxing out.
sump your tank or get a cell, -8 with 2 bosch 44s feeding each rail. then both railsto your regulator, then back to your tank. you wont ever think about fuel again til you want something stupid
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PostSubject: Re: Returnless Fuel System Vs Return Fuel System   April 12th 2012, 12:51 pm

V6Chris wrote:
TheCrusherCobra wrote:
I need help with this shit.

I already have two super car Ford GT Fuel pumps with a twin 40-amp KB-Booster Pump and i am going to get the fore triple pump precision fuel hat and add a third pump to be in the fuel safe side of 1000whp range.

My questions is! should i go Return system? or can i keep it returnless and still be safe making 900+whp?
I really don't like the return system, and all the BS having to be opening and closing the ignition key to charge up the fuel lines and fuel rails after the fuel pressure has settle down. Neutral

So any good input on this matter will be very helpful for me.

Thanks.

Frank, a return style system is 10times better and more efficient then returnless. also supports A LOT MORE power.
Get a return style system and stop eating shit with the 2 boost a pumps, 3 pumps, big expensive hat, all to still be damn near maxing out.
sump your tank or get a cell, -8 with 2 bosch 44s feeding each rail. then both railsto your regulator, then back to your tank. you wont ever think about fuel again til you want something stupid

Chris i think you are wrong some what, a returnless style system is by far more efficient than a return style depending on YOUR application.
When you use a returnless style system you have the ability to regulate system pressure electronically ( alonmg with many other things ) , now this is no simple task reason why everyone just says screw it and go with a return style. For example a lot of guys run voltage magnifires like the " boostapump " to increase the flow of the pump . So @ 12 volts the pump supply X amount but @ 14V its double ( for arguments sake ) . Now this is a feture that is used already in returnless systems, there far other things like no fuel cavitation problems , fuel evaporation problems in the return line, no pressure regulators ( less components ) and many more thiings i dont feel like writing. So maybe for racing its far too complex for the average joe or just too much of a headache for some standalone ECU tunners to get working , but its far from being inferior to return style.

So in the end i guess is how much time/money you got , and how ahrd is it to get to work. So if it aint broken dont fix it !


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PostSubject: Re: Returnless Fuel System Vs Return Fuel System   April 12th 2012, 12:59 pm

TheCrusherCobra wrote:
I need help with this shit.

I already have two super car Ford GT Fuel pumps with a twin 40-amp KB-Booster Pump and i am going to get the fore triple pump precision fuel hat and add a third pump to be in the fuel safe side of 1000whp range.

My questions is! should i go Return system? or can i keep it returnless and still be safe making 900+whp?
I really don't like the return system, and all the BS having to be opening and closing the ignition key to charge up the fuel lines and fuel rails after the fuel pressure has settle down. Neutral

So any good input on this matter will be very helpful for me.

Thanks.

There are some ways to attck this matter Frank depending on your budget. If you have big bucks and you want the real deal look no further than Weldon , downside is its Big $$ and you need a controller.

Another way to approach is the way im going and that is with MagnaFuel 4103 , you dont need a controller, its a proven pump , and its not bad for the price ( $750 shipped on line )
http://www.magnafuel.com/products/efi/pumps/MP-4101.htm

Its rated for 2500 HP Na so for bossted applications on E85 i would say you would be safe at 1300-1400 HP, I run the 2 bosch like chris said. Now only thing is that if one pump fails and you dont have a good ecu , say bye bye to your big $$$ engine. I rather have one pump , but 2 044 work perfect for around 750-800 whp max without the boostapump, i would say that with the boostapump you should have enough fuel for 900+.

so its really up to you how far
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03terminator
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PostSubject: Re: Returnless Fuel System Vs Return Fuel System   April 12th 2012, 1:13 pm

Frank go return and forget about the rest, lots and lots of info about the subject on svtp that i have read up on that if i get another cobra, hands down thats the route i'm going. Do it once and be done with it, if you go return theres more room to grow and the plus outweights the cons by a big margin... thats all i'm going to say brah
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PostSubject: Re: Returnless Fuel System Vs Return Fuel System   April 12th 2012, 1:20 pm

Dual Bosch pumps and your done. Return style
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PostSubject: Re: Returnless Fuel System Vs Return Fuel System   April 12th 2012, 1:37 pm

I had a return style fuel system on my 04 cobra and i did not have problems running out fuel or anything like that, but i did not like the fact that i had to be playing with the ignition key charging up the fuel system... My GT500 made 774 on boost 21psi +75 shot of nitrous on the stock fuel returnless fuel system with the stock GT500 fuel pumps and the BK booster pump and it did not lean out at any moment... But yea i'll probably go with the return style just to be safe, but i really don't like it.

Thank you guys for the info anyways. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Returnless Fuel System Vs Return Fuel System   April 12th 2012, 2:20 pm

You can make shy of 1000hp with the 3 pump system as long as you have -10an going to the front splitting to two -8an. Ford's returnless system is just plain shit after 600hp. On cobras with e85 it maxes out at around 520.
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PostSubject: Re: Returnless Fuel System Vs Return Fuel System   April 12th 2012, 6:02 pm

gatoasao wrote:
You can make shy of 1000hp with the 3 pump system as long as you have -10an going to the front splitting to two -8an. Ford's returnless system is just plain shit after 600hp. On cobras with e85 it maxes out at around 520.

Just to clarify , that system is not limited by design , more by the pump being out flowed. It will be dificult to PWM one of those big pumps hence why everyone goes return style. I vote return style too, returnless style has his place. Frank i vote to get 1 good pump and forget about it.
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PostSubject: Re: Returnless Fuel System Vs Return Fuel System   April 12th 2012, 6:42 pm

USMCWARVET wrote:
TheCrusherCobra wrote:
I need help with this shit.

I already have two super car Ford GT Fuel pumps with a twin 40-amp KB-Booster Pump and i am going to get the fore triple pump precision fuel hat and add a third pump to be in the fuel safe side of 1000whp range.

My questions is! should i go Return system? or can i keep it returnless and still be safe making 900+whp?
I really don't like the return system, and all the BS having to be opening and closing the ignition key to charge up the fuel lines and fuel rails after the fuel pressure has settle down. Neutral

So any good input on this matter will be very helpful for me.

Thanks.

There are some ways to attck this matter Frank depending on your budget. If you have big bucks and you want the real deal look no further than Weldon , downside is its Big $$ and you need a controller.

Another way to approach is the way im going and that is with MagnaFuel 4103 , you dont need a controller, its a proven pump , and its not bad for the price ( $750 shipped on line )
http://www.magnafuel.com/products/efi/pumps/MP-4101.htm

Its rated for 2500 HP Na so for bossted applications on E85 i would say you would be safe at 1300-1400 HP, I run the 2 bosch like chris said. Now only thing is that if one pump fails and you dont have a good ecu , say bye bye to your big $$$ engine. I rather have one pump , but 2 044 work perfect for around 750-800 whp max without the boostapump, i would say that with the boostapump you should have enough fuel for 900+.

so its really up to you how far

i just got rid of my prostar 4103. that pump is not good for street use magnafuel and race part said. that pump will get hot. I switched it for a protuner 750...but i think Frank will max out 1 protuner if he really plans on 1000+whp on e85
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PostSubject: Re: Returnless Fuel System Vs Return Fuel System   April 12th 2012, 6:56 pm

two-044 bosch pumps will max out using e85 at about 825-850whp
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PostSubject: Re: Returnless Fuel System Vs Return Fuel System   April 12th 2012, 7:07 pm

Return system is by far the best application for big HP cars ... You have a Boost a pump. Fuel pump module driver or fuel pressure sensor going bad at WoT is motor time ... I'm doing 1000whp kit from lethal performance next week since i sold my returnless set up thank god ..
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PostSubject: Re: Returnless Fuel System Vs Return Fuel System   April 12th 2012, 8:16 pm

The big external pumps are noisy and get quite annoying, but if it's a racecar then there's no question about it, go with the external either a mangafuel prostar or a weldon (I prefer magnafuel). But A weldon or magnafuel or anything else external on a street car will drive you nuts after 10 minutes, aeromotives are crap.
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PostSubject: Re: Returnless Fuel System Vs Return Fuel System   April 12th 2012, 8:32 pm

Frank, one of the biggest downfalls to a returnless fuel system is having to rely on a controller of sorts to vary the voltage to the pump therefore regulating the fuel pressure and flow. Although specific pumps are designed for variable voltage it has been proven that this system in high horsepower applications leads to pump failures and larger single pumps such as Magnafuel and Weldon will not work properly with a variable voltage system. Going return gives you a much wider array of pump choices and less potential for failure as the fuel pressure regulator does all the work mechanically so it's one less electronic component to fail. We've been using multiple pump systems for a while now and thankfully have not had any failures other than complete drivers going bad which caused a no run condition vs a blown engine. However, the potential is there and we have as of late been using large single pump systems. I personally prefer Weldon components as they have been a tried and true brand for many years and have a very positive track record. We actually sell a fuel hat that is designed to be used with a self priming single pump setup return style. It uses the factory location and is perfect for your setup unless of course you prefer to use a fuel cell and ditch the factory saddle bag tank. Let me know if you are interested!
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PostSubject: Re: Returnless Fuel System Vs Return Fuel System   April 12th 2012, 8:44 pm

^^ you think you can fab one up for a supra ? im going with a bigger pump on my new build.
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PostSubject: Re: Returnless Fuel System Vs Return Fuel System   April 12th 2012, 10:37 pm

USMCWARVET wrote:
^^ you think you can fab one up for a supra ? im going with a bigger pump on my new build.

Yeah we can get you set up just stop by the shop and we'll plan it out.

Revolution Performance
6851 SW 21st Ct. Suite 15
Davie, FL 33317
Mon-Fri 8am - 6pm
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PostSubject: Re: Returnless Fuel System Vs Return Fuel System   April 12th 2012, 11:43 pm

26brx8 wrote:
two-044 bosch pumps will max out using e85 at about 825-850whp
sorry I'm used to hondas people make 1000+ on e85 with dual Bosch pumps
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PostSubject: Re: Returnless Fuel System Vs Return Fuel System   April 13th 2012, 10:27 am

26brx8 wrote:
two-044 bosch pumps will max out using e85 at about 825-850whp

on what car? I've heard different
lines and injectors also make a difference. a larger then needed injector helps the pump and u don't have to jack up the fuel pressure so much
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PostSubject: Re: Returnless Fuel System Vs Return Fuel System   April 13th 2012, 2:30 pm

95RioRedCobra wrote:
Frank, one of the biggest downfalls to a returnless fuel system is having to rely on a controller of sorts to vary the voltage to the pump therefore regulating the fuel pressure and flow. Although specific pumps are designed for variable voltage it has been proven that this system in high horsepower applications leads to pump failures and larger single pumps such as Magnafuel and Weldon will not work properly with a variable voltage system. Going return gives you a much wider array of pump choices and less potential for failure as the fuel pressure regulator does all the work mechanically so it's one less electronic component to fail. We've been using multiple pump systems for a while now and thankfully have not had any failures other than complete drivers going bad which caused a no run condition vs a blown engine. However, the potential is there and we have as of late been using large single pump systems. I personally prefer Weldon components as they have been a tried and true brand for many years and have a very positive track record. We actually sell a fuel hat that is designed to be used with a self priming single pump setup return style. It uses the factory location and is perfect for your setup unless of course you prefer to use a fuel cell and ditch the factory saddle bag tank. Let me know if you are interested!



Can I use three Super car Ford GT fuel pumps with a return style fuel system?
The reason i ask is because, i had already purchased two super car pumps few months back and i don't think i can return those back.. lol So i am trying to work with what i already have in house.

SO. 3 super car fuel pumps
40amp dual KB A-Booster pump.
Fuel pressure regulator
a/n-8
a/n-10
Fuel rails
105 injectors
E-85

^^Can i work with these items for 1000whp??????
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PostSubject: Re: Returnless Fuel System Vs Return Fuel System   April 13th 2012, 3:11 pm

V6Chris wrote:
USMCWARVET wrote:
TheCrusherCobra wrote:
I need help with this shit.

I already have two super car Ford GT Fuel pumps with a twin 40-amp KB-Booster Pump and i am going to get the fore triple pump precision fuel hat and add a third pump to be in the fuel safe side of 1000whp range.

My questions is! should i go Return system? or can i keep it returnless and still be safe making 900+whp?
I really don't like the return system, and all the BS having to be opening and closing the ignition key to charge up the fuel lines and fuel rails after the fuel pressure has settle down. Neutral

So any good input on this matter will be very helpful for me.

Thanks.

There are some ways to attck this matter Frank depending on your budget. If you have big bucks and you want the real deal look no further than Weldon , downside is its Big $$ and you need a controller.

Another way to approach is the way im going and that is with MagnaFuel 4103 , you dont need a controller, its a proven pump , and its not bad for the price ( $750 shipped on line )
http://www.magnafuel.com/products/efi/pumps/MP-4101.htm

Its rated for 2500 HP Na so for bossted applications on E85 i would say you would be safe at 1300-1400 HP, I run the 2 bosch like chris said. Now only thing is that if one pump fails and you dont have a good ecu , say bye bye to your big $$$ engine. I rather have one pump , but 2 044 work perfect for around 750-800 whp max without the boostapump, i would say that with the boostapump you should have enough fuel for 900+.

so its really up to you how far

i just got rid of my prostar 4103. that pump is not good for street use magnafuel and race part said. that pump will get hot. I switched it for a protuner 750...but i think Frank will max out 1 protuner if he really plans on 1000+whp on e85


+1 i run two 750 pro tuners on my car each pump is good for 900 on e85 and its a real street friendly pump those other pumps are only recomended for 45 min run time

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PostSubject: Re: Returnless Fuel System Vs Return Fuel System   April 13th 2012, 6:24 pm

You are not going to make 1000hp to the wheel on a small block on E85 with 100lb injectors. Also why even bother with the booster-pump? Just ditch and install heavy duty relays with 3 leds after the fuse so if one of the pumps fail you will know about it. If you need wiring done I can do it for you...I don't do mechanical work though.
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PostSubject: Re: Returnless Fuel System Vs Return Fuel System   April 13th 2012, 7:15 pm

gatoasao wrote:
You are not going to make 1000hp to the wheel on a small block on E85 with 100lb injectors. Also why even bother with the booster-pump? Just ditch and install heavy duty relays with 3 leds after the fuse so if one of the pumps fail you will know about it. If you need wiring done I can do it for you...I don't do mechanical work though.



Good idea PM me your# I am going to have R/P and you guys do some work for me on this one... I'll take care the mechanical part, no big deal. Cool
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PostSubject: Re: Returnless Fuel System Vs Return Fuel System   April 13th 2012, 9:31 pm

BABY CRUSH wrote:
V6Chris wrote:
USMCWARVET wrote:
TheCrusherCobra wrote:
I need help with this shit.

I already have two super car Ford GT Fuel pumps with a twin 40-amp KB-Booster Pump and i am going to get the fore triple pump precision fuel hat and add a third pump to be in the fuel safe side of 1000whp range.

My questions is! should i go Return system? or can i keep it returnless and still be safe making 900+whp?
I really don't like the return system, and all the BS having to be opening and closing the ignition key to charge up the fuel lines and fuel rails after the fuel pressure has settle down. Neutral

So any good input on this matter will be very helpful for me.

Thanks.

There are some ways to attck this matter Frank depending on your budget. If you have big bucks and you want the real deal look no further than Weldon , downside is its Big $$ and you need a controller.

Another way to approach is the way im going and that is with MagnaFuel 4103 , you dont need a controller, its a proven pump , and its not bad for the price ( $750 shipped on line )
http://www.magnafuel.com/products/efi/pumps/MP-4101.htm

Its rated for 2500 HP Na so for bossted applications on E85 i would say you would be safe at 1300-1400 HP, I run the 2 bosch like chris said. Now only thing is that if one pump fails and you dont have a good ecu , say bye bye to your big $$$ engine. I rather have one pump , but 2 044 work perfect for around 750-800 whp max without the boostapump, i would say that with the boostapump you should have enough fuel for 900+.

so its really up to you how far

i just got rid of my prostar 4103. that pump is not good for street use magnafuel and race part said. that pump will get hot. I switched it for a protuner 750...but i think Frank will max out 1 protuner if he really plans on 1000+whp on e85


+1 i run two 750 pro tuners on my car each pump is good for 900 on e85 and its a real street friendly pump those other pumps are only recomended for 45 min run time

im running dual 4303 750 pro tuner aswell. these pumps are sick!!! no heating for street duty at all and actually you can make just under 1000whp on e85 through a manual trans setup.
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PostSubject: Re: Returnless Fuel System Vs Return Fuel System   April 13th 2012, 9:34 pm

USMCWARVET wrote:
^^ you think you can fab one up for a supra ? im going with a bigger pump on my new build.


i have a billet tripple pump hanger for sale if your interested pm me.
im now running an rks billet fuel hat with a magnafuel 4303 750 pro tuner intank and one external that come on under boost.
here a link to the pump hanger they offer http://www.rkspowersystems.com/
i think its like $950 for the magnafuel hanger with pump and sock
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PostSubject: Re: Returnless Fuel System Vs Return Fuel System   April 14th 2012, 12:25 am

TheCrusherCobra wrote:

Good idea PM me your# I am going to have R/P and you guys do some work for me on this one... I'll take care the mechanical part, no big deal. Cool

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Modular-Wiring-Solutions/172698692743130

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