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peacockpirate
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PostSubject: Re: QUESTION!!!????   April 11th 2012, 6:48 pm

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Stockness
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PostSubject: Re: QUESTION!!!????   April 11th 2012, 6:59 pm

gatoasao wrote:
Ok to clarify some points:


1 - E85 will not break your sending unit, at least not in any chrysler vehicle. I worked as a heavyline mechanic at a dodge chrysler jeep dealer and have yet to see one fail because of this...truth is..most srt-4 owners remove the sending unit and do all kind of stupid things to it when upgrading fuel pumps, etc, and these fail but not because of the e85.

2 - You can run full E85, a neon has almost no compression and makes very little power, like I stated before, you can go very lean on e85 and still be able to go WOT and not knock. Besides, if you do run into some detonation the knock sensor will pick it up. I don't say put E85 on anything that makes more than 200hp and gun it because that's senseless.

3 - USMCWARVET you are correct, e85 is affected by cold temperature, I probably didn't get my point across...the guy is in south florida, we get e85 and not e70 all year long because temps never drop below 30degrees so "cold" issue of the fuel not igniting is not really an issue.

4 - The trick of running a resistor to fool the ecu is a double sided blade, this was used on the fbodies for ages to get 5 more hp. What happens is if you lower the inlet temp too much it will go out of closed loop and your fuel will be out of wack.

5 - the pics show only bad valve seals, which will cause oil to clog everything, ethanol will actually clean all of this up but heavy oil consumption will gum up and just stick.

6 - E85 will mix with the fuel but that's on cars that run very rich to cool things down, on a regular car just change the oil like you used to

What exactly do neon srt4 owners do to their sending units...all this weir shit u speak off...look u have good valid points , but to say that e85 doesnt kill fuel sending units on neon srt4 is just not tru (this issue might not be a problem for other cars but i am speaking in regards toneon srt4's)....Nemo over at Rage Tek which happens to be one of the oldest/knowledgeable neom/srt4 was trying to build a unit for the srt4 cummunity since most running e85 in their cars are broken after switching to e85
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Stockness
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PostSubject: Re: QUESTION!!!????   April 11th 2012, 7:10 pm

Give this guy a call an tell him that e85 doesnt kill the neon srt4 fuel sending units that u have found the solution.......your going to make lots of money ..profit?


http://www.rage-tek.com/home.php
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Ryan



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PostSubject: Re: QUESTION!!!????   April 11th 2012, 7:39 pm

holy shit you idiots are trying to tell srt-4 owners about their own cars, our fuel sending units go bad in e85 PERIOD. Happened to myself and TONS of others.
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Phantom SRT4
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PostSubject: Re: QUESTION!!!????   April 11th 2012, 8:05 pm

I haven't read everything in this thread but Stockness is 100% correct about the fuel sending unit taking a shit. It has happened to EVERY single SRT4 running E85, sometimes it last a few hours, some lasted a little over a year, but eventually they all fail. Many shops have been trying to come up with ways to fix this issue. We are not talking a handful of cars, we are talking about 100s.
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FactoryFreak
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PostSubject: Re: QUESTION!!!????   April 11th 2012, 8:25 pm

mine still works thank god but i know about 70% of the people that im close with have no working sending units
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bambinov8
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PostSubject: Re: QUESTION!!!????   April 12th 2012, 12:00 am

Nobody said nothing about us saying it doesn't kill sending units on skittles ... Stockness said on the long run , e85 will eat rubber lines and other fuel components IN EVERY NON FLEX FUEL CAR !!!!!! Ryan , 1 post and swinging balls hard eh ? Want SOME MAYO ? ....STOCKNESS make sure about the Mass chaos we gona have cuz of your previous statements on ethanol running cars LOL
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Phantom SRT4
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PostSubject: Re: QUESTION!!!????   April 12th 2012, 12:24 am

I see how it could get misunderstood, but he was was replying towards Frank when he said it. Frank is asking/doing this in a neon, he never said anything about "all cars"...

Stockness wrote:
If u continue to use e85 your fuel sending unit is going to take a shit.....not knowing how much gas u have in your talk FTL.....and those fuel rubber lines wont like e85 in the long run...
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2003styellowsrt
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PostSubject: Re: QUESTION!!!????   April 12th 2012, 2:58 am

I myself worked on srts for some time yes sending unit does take a shit while running e85,and for those saying e85 dosnt eat up rubber I got 5 different sumergable fuel lines desinergrated here right next to me that would beg to differ,lol
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Stockness
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PostSubject: Re: QUESTION!!!????   April 12th 2012, 7:29 am

bambinov8 wrote:
Nobody said nothing about us saying it doesn't kill sending units on skittles ... Stockness said on the long run , e85 will eat rubber lines and other fuel components IN EVERY NON FLEX FUEL CAR !!!!!! Ryan , 1 post and swinging balls hard eh ? Want SOME MAYO ? ....STOCKNESS make sure about the Mass chaos we gona have cuz of your previous statements on ethanol running cars LOL

Didnt say that....Quote me!!!!!! I didnt.....now you are just putting words in my mouth, funny thing this whole time i am talking about neon srt4........while lexus,audi etc cars are been brought up as an argument.....why? Since clearly the OP drives a Neon ..my input was towards the OP vehicle an only that...
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BlackMambaLS3
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PostSubject: Re: QUESTION!!!????   April 12th 2012, 10:23 am

Hey thats it man lets fight come near my house in homestead and lets fight im done with u E thugs im 5'4 180 come bring it !My sending unit is better than urs no more discussion
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Stockness
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PostSubject: Re: QUESTION!!!????   April 12th 2012, 11:21 am

Lolz....
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USMCWARVET
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PostSubject: Re: QUESTION!!!????   April 12th 2012, 11:54 am

ok you guys have a lot of failures . So for you SRT/NEON experts i have a few questions.

When you guys convert to e85 what are you doing with the intank regulator ? i dont think it has one on the rail its kind of a hybrid returnless design right ?

Also are you guys going to a 1:1 ratio regulator ?

When you guys do the water /meth injection are you guys having the same failures % on sending units?


Just want to get some info. Is it possible that you guys are cavitating the pumps in the tank ? you can burn any pump if it cavitates. So i guess the real thing would be to test flow @ X pressure ( which would be what ever you guys are running static + PSI if using 1:1 regulators @ X volatge ) this would be a better detailed explanation to REALLY see if its the E85 or you guys are just pushing the pump to the max. If the pump was not designed for those conditions it will fail even if you ran water through it.
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USMCWARVET
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PostSubject: Re: QUESTION!!!????   April 12th 2012, 11:58 am

2003styellowsrt wrote:
I got 5 different sumergable fuel lines desinergrated here right next to me that would beg to differ,lol

If you used 100% rubber line 5 times you need to do some more reading and learning about ethanol before you continue. Yes 100% rubber will get destroyed with Alchahol , how long IDK. Now synthetic rubber , is what we use in current fuel sysmtems since god knows when will not be harmed by ethanol.

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USMCWARVET
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PostSubject: Re: QUESTION!!!????   April 12th 2012, 12:05 pm

My 1st comment above is just a theory not actual fact so take it with a grain of salt, but its something to test or think off.
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Stockness
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PostSubject: Re: QUESTION!!!????   April 12th 2012, 12:31 pm

Replied into your quote...



USMCWARVET wrote:
ok you guys have a lot of failures . So for you SRT/NEON experts i have a few questions.

When you guys convert to e85 what are you doing with the intank regulator ? i dont think it has one on the rail its kind of a hybrid returnless design right ?
Regulator is by the tank... Unless ur doing a fuel return line u leave it alone, if ur doing one then u block it.

Also are you guys going to a 1:1 ratio regulator ?
When they do fuel systems
yes..

When you guys do the water /meth injection are you guys having the same failures % on sending units?
Failures are only on e85, not race gas or anyother fuel so far...

Just want to get some info. Is it possible that you guys are cavitating the pumps in the tank ? you can burn any pump if it cavitates. So i guess the real thing would be to test flow @ X pressure ( which would be what ever you guys are running static + PSI if using 1:1 regulators @ X volatge ) this would be a better detailed explanation to REALLY see if its the E85 or you guys are just pushing the pump to the max. If the pump was not designed for those conditions it will fail even if you ran water through it.

Cavitation is not an issue if the fuel system is done right...also most srt4 owners go with walbros n Bosh pumps n seem to be doing fine,fuel pumps are not the issue for us!!! Sending units are! They die and your stuck with out knowing how much fuel u got on your tank (only with e85)
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USMCWARVET
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PostSubject: Re: QUESTION!!!????   April 12th 2012, 12:42 pm

Stockness wrote:
Replied into your quote...



USMCWARVET wrote:
ok you guys have a lot of failures . So for you SRT/NEON experts i have a few questions.

When you guys convert to e85 what are you doing with the intank regulator ? i dont think it has one on the rail its kind of a hybrid returnless design right ?
Regulator is by the tank... Unless ur doing a fuel return line u leave it alone, if ur doing one then u block it.

Also are you guys going to a 1:1 ratio regulator ?
When they do fuel systems
yes..

When you guys do the water /meth injection are you guys having the same failures % on sending units?
Failures are only on e85, not race gas or anyother fuel so far...

Just want to get some info. Is it possible that you guys are cavitating the pumps in the tank ? you can burn any pump if it cavitates. So i guess the real thing would be to test flow @ X pressure ( which would be what ever you guys are running static + PSI if using 1:1 regulators @ X volatge ) this would be a better detailed explanation to REALLY see if its the E85 or you guys are just pushing the pump to the max. If the pump was not designed for those conditions it will fail even if you ran water through it.

Cavitation is not an issue if the fuel system is done right...also most srt4 owners go with walbros n Bosh pumps n seem to be doing fine,fuel pumps are not the issue for us!!! Sending units are! They die and your stuck with out knowing how much fuel u got on your tank (only with e85)

im not talking about Walbros or aftermarket pumps, im talking about the factory sending unit . When you say sending unit you mean the pump right ?
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peacockpirate
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PostSubject: Re: QUESTION!!!????   April 12th 2012, 12:56 pm

bambinov8 wrote:
Nobody said nothing about us saying it doesn't kill sending units on skittles ... Stockness said on the long run , e85 will eat rubber lines and other fuel components IN EVERY NON FLEX FUEL CAR !!!!!! Ryan , 1 post and swinging balls hard eh ? Want SOME MAYO ? ....STOCKNESS make sure about the Mass chaos we gona have cuz of your previous statements on ethanol running cars LOL

Yeah gatoasao said that it does not affect sending units period.

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Stockness
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PostSubject: Re: QUESTION!!!????   April 12th 2012, 12:59 pm

USMCWARVET wrote:
Stockness wrote:
Replied into your quote...



USMCWARVET wrote:
ok you guys have a lot of failures . So for you SRT/NEON experts i have a few questions.

When you guys convert to e85 what are you doing with the intank regulator ? i dont think it has one on the rail its kind of a hybrid returnless design right ?
Regulator is by the tank... Unless ur doing a fuel return line u leave it alone, if ur doing one then u block it.

Also are you guys going to a 1:1 ratio regulator ?
When they do fuel systems
yes..

When you guys do the water /meth injection are you guys having the same failures % on sending units?
Failures are only on e85, not race gas or anyother fuel so far...

Just want to get some info. Is it possible that you guys are cavitating the pumps in the tank ? you can burn any pump if it cavitates. So i guess the real thing would be to test flow @ X pressure ( which would be what ever you guys are running static + PSI if using 1:1 regulators @ X volatge ) this would be a better detailed explanation to REALLY see if its the E85 or you guys are just pushing the pump to the max. If the pump was not designed for those conditions it will fail even if you ran water through it.

Cavitation is not an issue if the fuel system is done right...also most srt4 owners go with walbros n Bosh pumps n seem to be doing fine,fuel pumps are not the issue for us!!! Sending units are! They die and your stuck with out knowing how much fuel u got on your tank (only with e85)

im not talking about Walbros or aftermarket pumps, im talking about the factory sending unit . When you say sending unit you mean the pump right ?

Nope!! When i am talking about sending unit i mean that little electronic device with the floater attach in the fuel tank wich gives u fuel readings...
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USMCWARVET
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USMCWARVET

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PostSubject: Re: QUESTION!!!????   April 12th 2012, 1:04 pm

Stockness wrote:
USMCWARVET wrote:
Stockness wrote:
Replied into your quote...



USMCWARVET wrote:
ok you guys have a lot of failures . So for you SRT/NEON experts i have a few questions.

When you guys convert to e85 what are you doing with the intank regulator ? i dont think it has one on the rail its kind of a hybrid returnless design right ?
Regulator is by the tank... Unless ur doing a fuel return line u leave it alone, if ur doing one then u block it.

Also are you guys going to a 1:1 ratio regulator ?
When they do fuel systems
yes..

When you guys do the water /meth injection are you guys having the same failures % on sending units?
Failures are only on e85, not race gas or anyother fuel so far...

Just want to get some info. Is it possible that you guys are cavitating the pumps in the tank ? you can burn any pump if it cavitates. So i guess the real thing would be to test flow @ X pressure ( which would be what ever you guys are running static + PSI if using 1:1 regulators @ X volatge ) this would be a better detailed explanation to REALLY see if its the E85 or you guys are just pushing the pump to the max. If the pump was not designed for those conditions it will fail even if you ran water through it.

Cavitation is not an issue if the fuel system is done right...also most srt4 owners go with walbros n Bosh pumps n seem to be doing fine,fuel pumps are not the issue for us!!! Sending units are! They die and your stuck with out knowing how much fuel u got on your tank (only with e85)

im not talking about Walbros or aftermarket pumps, im talking about the factory sending unit . When you say sending unit you mean the pump right ?

Nope!! When i am talking about sending unit i mean that little electronic device with the floater attach in the fuel tank wich gives u fuel readings...


OMFG !!! lol! the whole time you are saying sending unit , my brain is thinking fuel pump ( that is what we call them were i work ) lol. Sorry ok so the floater or the actual potentiometer is going bad ? thats weird but im sure its possibel makes A LOT more sense but hey , atleast we all gave some good info for those that dont know a lot about ethanol . Sorry man i apologize .
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peacockpirate
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PostSubject: Re: QUESTION!!!????   April 12th 2012, 1:10 pm

USMCWARVET wrote:
Stockness wrote:
USMCWARVET wrote:
Stockness wrote:
Replied into your quote...



USMCWARVET wrote:
ok you guys have a lot of failures . So for you SRT/NEON experts i have a few questions.

When you guys convert to e85 what are you doing with the intank regulator ? i dont think it has one on the rail its kind of a hybrid returnless design right ?
Regulator is by the tank... Unless ur doing a fuel return line u leave it alone, if ur doing one then u block it.

Also are you guys going to a 1:1 ratio regulator ?
When they do fuel systems
yes..

When you guys do the water /meth injection are you guys having the same failures % on sending units?
Failures are only on e85, not race gas or anyother fuel so far...

Just want to get some info. Is it possible that you guys are cavitating the pumps in the tank ? you can burn any pump if it cavitates. So i guess the real thing would be to test flow @ X pressure ( which would be what ever you guys are running static + PSI if using 1:1 regulators @ X volatge ) this would be a better detailed explanation to REALLY see if its the E85 or you guys are just pushing the pump to the max. If the pump was not designed for those conditions it will fail even if you ran water through it.

Cavitation is not an issue if the fuel system is done right...also most srt4 owners go with walbros n Bosh pumps n seem to be doing fine,fuel pumps are not the issue for us!!! Sending units are! They die and your stuck with out knowing how much fuel u got on your tank (only with e85)

im not talking about Walbros or aftermarket pumps, im talking about the factory sending unit . When you say sending unit you mean the pump right ?

Nope!! When i am talking about sending unit i mean that little electronic device with the floater attach in the fuel tank wich gives u fuel readings...


OMFG !!! lol! the whole time you are saying sending unit , my brain is thinking fuel pump ( that is what we call them were i work ) lol. Sorry ok so the floater or the actual potentiometer is going bad ? thats weird but im sure its possibel makes A LOT more sense but hey , atleast we all gave some good info for those that dont know a lot about ethanol . Sorry man i apologize .


lol yeah man the bobber in the tank. the e85 corrodes the wiring to the sending unit and it takes a shit. People were trying to develop something to coat the wiring w/ to prevent the e85 from eating it away, but so far it has not been developed.
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Stockness
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PostSubject: Re: QUESTION!!!????   April 12th 2012, 1:12 pm

USMCWARVET wrote:
Stockness wrote:
USMCWARVET wrote:
Stockness wrote:
Replied into your quote...


No problemo....


USMCWARVET wrote:
ok you guys have a lot of failures . So for you SRT/NEON experts i have a few questions.

When you guys convert to e85 what are you doing with the intank regulator ? i dont think it has one on the rail its kind of a hybrid returnless design right ?
Regulator is by the tank... Unless ur doing a fuel return line u leave it alone, if ur doing one then u block it.

Also are you guys going to a 1:1 ratio regulator ?
When they do fuel systems
yes..

When you guys do the water /meth injection are you guys having the same failures % on sending units?
Failures are only on e85, not race gas or anyother fuel so far...

Just want to get some info. Is it possible that you guys are cavitating the pumps in the tank ? you can burn any pump if it cavitates. So i guess the real thing would be to test flow @ X pressure ( which would be what ever you guys are running static + PSI if using 1:1 regulators @ X volatge ) this would be a better detailed explanation to REALLY see if its the E85 or you guys are just pushing the pump to the max. If the pump was not designed for those conditions it will fail even if you ran water through it.

Cavitation is not an issue if the fuel system is done right...also most srt4 owners go with walbros n Bosh pumps n seem to be doing fine,fuel pumps are not the issue for us!!! Sending units are! They die and your stuck with out knowing how much fuel u got on your tank (only with e85)

im not talking about Walbros or aftermarket pumps, im talking about the factory sending unit . When you say sending unit you mean the pump right ?

Nope!! When i am talking about sending unit i mean that little electronic device with the floater attach in the fuel tank wich gives u fuel readings...


OMFG !!! lol! the whole time you are saying sending unit , my brain is thinking fuel pump ( that is what we call them were i work ) lol. Sorry ok so the floater or the actual potentiometer is going bad ? thats weird but im sure its possibel makes A LOT more sense but hey , atleast we all gave some good info for those that dont know a lot about ethanol . Sorry man i apologize .
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bambinov8
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PostSubject: Re: QUESTION!!!????   April 12th 2012, 1:35 pm

Only thing I can think off the top of my head ideas might be to apply a better conformal coating such as epoxy that can handle solvents better, hardwire/solder the wiring to the sender and bypass the connector and possibly modify the wiper arm on the sender so that it helps keep the contacts clean as it moves across the surface.
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gatoasao
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PostSubject: Re: QUESTION!!!????   April 12th 2012, 2:16 pm

What is it exactly that fails? I'm not aware of this problem...If you bring me one I'll be more than happy to test it for you and give you a solution.
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peacockpirate
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PostSubject: Re: QUESTION!!!????   April 12th 2012, 3:47 pm

peacockpirate wrote:
lol yeah man the bobber in the tank. the e85 corrodes the wiring to the sending unit and it takes a shit. People were trying to develop something to coat the wiring w/ to prevent the e85 from eating it away, but so far it has not been developed.

this^^^^^ Nemo has been working on it and so far it's a bust. pretty sure he figured something out, but it was not cost effective to market.
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